Wasn't a good day....
06-26-2005, 09:49 PM
#1
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Posts: n/a
Wasn't a good day....
On the way to the track, the upper level of the GW bridge was closed... They opened it like 10 minutes before we got there, but the road was all backed up. 3 hours, altogether, to get to the track.
So we get there around 11:30, the person at the gate tells us they started at 8:30. D'oh!
Anyway... 1st time run:
-.019 RT (red!), 1.747 60', 12.628 @ 105.60. DA was 3304, almost 2000 feet higher than last time out at E-Town. I've always heard that Island is about a tenth slower than E-Town, and my last run there was a 12.58, so I'm happy with this run.
I came right back up to the staging lanes to get a 2nd time run. The car was at 190 when I got to the lanes, I knew this run was gonna suck:
.052 RT (better!), 1.842 60', 12.887 @ 104.11. Big time bog out of the hole, I can't run this car when it gets too hot.
1st round of eliminiations - I dialed a 12.62.
-.014 RT (red again!), 1.739 60', 12.653 @ 105.36. The other guy ran a 12.821 on a 12.81 dial with a .072 RT, and he got the win due to my foul.
The guy I went with had his fuel pump die on his after the 1st time run, and he overheated twice. He had a .001 RT in the 2nd time run, so he should've had the bye into the 2nd round, but one last car showed up just as he was getting ready to run. So he had to run him, and he red-lit. Of well.
Then... 90 minute delays at the GW bridge on the way home, it took a little more than 4 hours to get home.
I'm done with this for a while, I'm gonna swap in the aluminum radiator & MSD distributor that's been laying around for a while, then go back out when it gets cooler.
We desperately need a track on LI. This travelling to Jersey all the time sucks!
So we get there around 11:30, the person at the gate tells us they started at 8:30. D'oh!
Anyway... 1st time run:
-.019 RT (red!), 1.747 60', 12.628 @ 105.60. DA was 3304, almost 2000 feet higher than last time out at E-Town. I've always heard that Island is about a tenth slower than E-Town, and my last run there was a 12.58, so I'm happy with this run.
I came right back up to the staging lanes to get a 2nd time run. The car was at 190 when I got to the lanes, I knew this run was gonna suck:
.052 RT (better!), 1.842 60', 12.887 @ 104.11. Big time bog out of the hole, I can't run this car when it gets too hot.
1st round of eliminiations - I dialed a 12.62.
-.014 RT (red again!), 1.739 60', 12.653 @ 105.36. The other guy ran a 12.821 on a 12.81 dial with a .072 RT, and he got the win due to my foul.
The guy I went with had his fuel pump die on his after the 1st time run, and he overheated twice. He had a .001 RT in the 2nd time run, so he should've had the bye into the 2nd round, but one last car showed up just as he was getting ready to run. So he had to run him, and he red-lit. Of well.
Then... 90 minute delays at the GW bridge on the way home, it took a little more than 4 hours to get home.
I'm done with this for a while, I'm gonna swap in the aluminum radiator & MSD distributor that's been laying around for a while, then go back out when it gets cooler.
We desperately need a track on LI. This travelling to Jersey all the time sucks!
06-27-2005, 09:32 AM
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Vernon, New Jersey
Posts: 278
Mike, compared to me, you had a good day.
I was at Island on Saturday. First time trial was a 1.71 60', 12.26 @ 110. The air was terrible. Second time trial was 1.70 60', 12.18 @ 110.
1st round - I get abour 3/4 the way down the track and the engine starts to break-up - nearly stalled - had to pump the pedal just to keep it from stalling on the return road and drove it up and into the trailer.
Yesterday I pulled off the left head and found 3 broken valves. The mushrooms snapped off the stems and wedged sideways into the seats.
The piston tops have all sorts of gouges from the pounding they took. And atleast 1 cylinder wall has deep scratches.
My guess is there wasn't adequate valve to piston clearence - something my "friend" said we need not check. Of course, it's possible I screwed-up setting the valve lash but I doubt that....I did it 3 times by the book.
I'm really disgusted
I was at Island on Saturday. First time trial was a 1.71 60', 12.26 @ 110. The air was terrible. Second time trial was 1.70 60', 12.18 @ 110.
1st round - I get abour 3/4 the way down the track and the engine starts to break-up - nearly stalled - had to pump the pedal just to keep it from stalling on the return road and drove it up and into the trailer.
Yesterday I pulled off the left head and found 3 broken valves. The mushrooms snapped off the stems and wedged sideways into the seats.
The piston tops have all sorts of gouges from the pounding they took. And atleast 1 cylinder wall has deep scratches.
My guess is there wasn't adequate valve to piston clearence - something my "friend" said we need not check. Of course, it's possible I screwed-up setting the valve lash but I doubt that....I did it 3 times by the book.
I'm really disgusted
06-27-2005, 09:37 AM
#5
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Hopewell Jct., NY
Posts: 501
Originally Posted by onehellofadart
I hate the 1.5 hours it takes me to get to Island.
Especially up all those mountains.
Especially up all those mountains.
Sorry about the rough day Mikel
06-27-2005, 09:44 AM
#7
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Wasn't a good day....
Originally Posted by mikelbeck
-.014 RT (red again!), 1.739 60', 12.653 @ 105.36.
06-27-2005, 10:12 AM
#8
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Moonachie, NJ
Posts: 886
Re: Wasn't a good day....
Originally Posted by mikelbeck
Originally Posted by mikelbeck
-.014 RT (red again!), 1.739 60', 12.653 @ 105.36.
06-27-2005, 10:20 AM
#9
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Moonachie, NJ
Posts: 886
Originally Posted by sickt7cuda
Mike, compared to me, you had a good day.
I was at Island on Saturday. First time trial was a 1.71 60', 12.26 @ 110. The air was terrible. Second time trial was 1.70 60', 12.18 @ 110.
1st round - I get abour 3/4 the way down the track and the engine starts to break-up - nearly stalled - had to pump the pedal just to keep it from stalling on the return road and drove it up and into the trailer.
Yesterday I pulled off the left head and found 3 broken valves. The mushrooms snapped off the stems and wedged sideways into the seats.
The piston tops have all sorts of gouges from the pounding they took. And atleast 1 cylinder wall has deep scratches.
My guess is there wasn't adequate valve to piston clearence - something my "friend" said we need not check. Of course, it's possible I screwed-up setting the valve lash but I doubt that....I did it 3 times by the book.
I'm really disgusted
I was at Island on Saturday. First time trial was a 1.71 60', 12.26 @ 110. The air was terrible. Second time trial was 1.70 60', 12.18 @ 110.
1st round - I get abour 3/4 the way down the track and the engine starts to break-up - nearly stalled - had to pump the pedal just to keep it from stalling on the return road and drove it up and into the trailer.
Yesterday I pulled off the left head and found 3 broken valves. The mushrooms snapped off the stems and wedged sideways into the seats.
The piston tops have all sorts of gouges from the pounding they took. And atleast 1 cylinder wall has deep scratches.
My guess is there wasn't adequate valve to piston clearence - something my "friend" said we need not check. Of course, it's possible I screwed-up setting the valve lash but I doubt that....I did it 3 times by the book.
I'm really disgusted
Dan, New cam new heads and you didn't check clearence?!?!?!?!?http://www.barbneal.com/wav/ltunes/elmer/Elmer03.wav
06-27-2005, 01:29 PM
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ringtown, Pa.
Posts: 185
I don't feel so bad, after reading about some of you're weekends!! Numidia Raceway is only about 14 miles from my home. I didn't break anything!! But it was HOT, 95* to 98* , oxygen altitude was 4450' to 4700' . I had a red light of -.003 , first round. My car kept running faster all day, and going by the weather, it should have been slowing down? First run 10.040et, second run 10.028et, and 1st elimination 9.982et, with a red light. It was that hot, that I didn't mind loosing to much.. A bad day racing is still better than a good day at work!! Sorry to hear about the bad luck Dan!!
06-27-2005, 08:53 PM
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Vernon, New Jersey
Posts: 278
Dan, New cam new heads and you didn't check clearence?!?!?!?!?I really thought I could trust the guy. He talks a good talk and I guess it ends there. Thinking back now, I remember him telling me that Paul Newman stopped by his shop one day and wanted him to build an engine for him. He said he told Newman he was just too busy. My radar must not have been working that day, as I'm sure now, it was all BS.
Tony, I had asked him if we should check the clearences and he said it wasn't necessary with that cam. We never even measured how far down in the hole the flattops were, which didn't have any valve reliefs cut either.
I was skeptical, but went along with it. It won't happen again.
06-28-2005, 04:07 PM
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Vernon, New Jersey
Posts: 278
Tony, I'm sure it could be bored out but really, what's the point? I'm going to need new pistons and rings anyway, so I might as well dress up the 400 block that I have.
This whole thing would be easier to swallow if it happened near the end of the season. It's going to take time to get it done.
Today I pulled the other head off. The pistons had shallow depressions where about 1/3rd of the valve was smacking the pistons. And to add insult to injury....it wiped out the cam. Two of the lifters won't come out from the top; the bottoms of the lifters are flattened out so badly.
So here's the plan: Buy 1 new head (probably cost more to fix)
440 steel crank into the 400 block
440 rods
New pistons - Diamond or Ross
New cam and lifters
CHECK PISTON TO VALVE CLEARENCE!
AND STAY AWAY FROM HERMAN! Wadda ya think?
This whole thing would be easier to swallow if it happened near the end of the season. It's going to take time to get it done.
Today I pulled the other head off. The pistons had shallow depressions where about 1/3rd of the valve was smacking the pistons. And to add insult to injury....it wiped out the cam. Two of the lifters won't come out from the top; the bottoms of the lifters are flattened out so badly.
So here's the plan: Buy 1 new head (probably cost more to fix)
440 steel crank into the 400 block
440 rods
New pistons - Diamond or Ross
New cam and lifters
CHECK PISTON TO VALVE CLEARENCE!
AND STAY AWAY FROM HERMAN! Wadda ya think?
06-29-2005, 08:45 AM
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Vernon, New Jersey
Posts: 278
Ah, Frank Zappa....I used to have a poster of Frank sitting on a toilet smoking a joint - it was great.
Actually, it will be a stroker. A 440 crank and rods in a 400 block bored .035 over is a 451ci. That should be plenty for me....for now. I just want to get back in the "game" as soon as I can. I can always change things later on.
Tony, I'm still trying to figure out exactly what went wrong with the motor. I thing it's kinda odd that the 3 valves that hit the pistons were all intake valves. Those valves should have been closed on the compression stroke. Usually, when you see valve to piston contact, it's the exhaust valves that are involved. Any ideas?
Actually, it will be a stroker. A 440 crank and rods in a 400 block bored .035 over is a 451ci. That should be plenty for me....for now. I just want to get back in the "game" as soon as I can. I can always change things later on.
Tony, I'm still trying to figure out exactly what went wrong with the motor. I thing it's kinda odd that the 3 valves that hit the pistons were all intake valves. Those valves should have been closed on the compression stroke. Usually, when you see valve to piston contact, it's the exhaust valves that are involved. Any ideas?
06-29-2005, 02:54 PM
#17
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Vernon, New Jersey
Posts: 278
That's sure a possibility (the timing chain). I haven't pulled the engine yet and it'll be alot easier to check that out then. Not that it's any guarantee that nothing could go wrong, but I put a new Cloyes timing set on when I made the other changes.
06-29-2005, 06:52 PM
#22
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Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by sickt7cuda
I can pretty much guarantee that there is air in, over and around the tire, but none under it.
One of these days, they'll be some air under those front tires... And it'll be when I'm racing, not when it's up on a floor jack!
07-04-2005, 07:47 AM
#25
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Moonachie, NJ
Posts: 886
Hey Dan, Was talking to a guy at the track yesterday about what happened to you.
He said it happened to a friend of his one time.
Said the reason for the intake staying open was the valve guide was to tight and bound the intakes so that they could not close.
He said it happened to a friend of his one time.
Said the reason for the intake staying open was the valve guide was to tight and bound the intakes so that they could not close.
07-04-2005, 02:44 PM
#26
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Vernon, New Jersey
Posts: 278
Tony, if that's the case, then Edelbrock may have some quality assurance issues to deal with. I'm not sure that's what happened though.
In that 383 block with flat-top pistons, I've read that a .509 cam is limit without valve reliefs cut in. I had no valve reliefs and my cam had 540/560 lift. The pistons were about .015 down in the hole and the head gaskets were .028 The cam had no business in that engine without the valve reliefs.
In that 383 block with flat-top pistons, I've read that a .509 cam is limit without valve reliefs cut in. I had no valve reliefs and my cam had 540/560 lift. The pistons were about .015 down in the hole and the head gaskets were .028 The cam had no business in that engine without the valve reliefs.
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